Danny Sullivan gives Anil Dash a Spanking over SEO FUD

Thread Title:
More On Link Condom & Blogger Worries Over Nofollow
Thread Description:

Well, we know that Bloggers dont get it but this is truly amazing - Anil Dash of Six Apart has discovered Oilmans excellent Link Condom site and he's real pissed.

Clearly he's losing the plot.

True SEO scumbags use content generation scripts to populate their banner farms with plausible text. Where does that text usually come from? Generally, it's stolen from other sites, on the assumption that people won't find out about the copyright violation. (I've had this happen personally.)

And who published this site? A company whose services include Search Engine Marketing and whose first listed client reference sells -- wait for it -- pills online! Who'da thunk?

Well Surprise Surprise - NoFollow don't work.. Bloggers are Whining - Again

This whole attitude just amazes me, but what the search engines have done to bloggers (give them a non-solution to shut them up) is worse - but hey, im starting to repeat myself - do a search for comment spam here at TW if you really wanna read more..

Danny Gives the Best Post I've Seen Him Make - Ever
Danny fucking outdid himself with his response, it's an absolute killer post. I tip my hat and humbly take a backseat with a big bag of popcorn to watch this one play out.. well, if i can get my typekey login to work i may go and say something rude but sheesh! How do follow THAT?

Here's a small quote, make sure you see Anils full whine for the whole glorious thing.

Now, I know you've got generally a bad view SEO, that it seems populated with scumbags like the supposed scumbag behind this site -- and being on the sharp end of blog spam, its understandable. But let's get personal a moment about the scumbag in question for this site.

Who published it? Someone who definitely does black hat SEO, yep. Someone who does white hat SEO, as well. And someone who knows a heck of a lot more about how search engines work -- and how this tag will and will not have an impact -- than the vast majority of people out there.

Scumbag? Then Yahoo -- who joined you and the other major search engines on nofollow -- is hanging out with scumbags, because Todd and I and several others all had a nice dinner recently with key people from Yahoo's search team last month.

Pure class...


Ooops, i think we may have boobed here...

I wonder if in endorsing Google's Nofollow tag whether we're actually going to see a lot of blogs disappear from the top of search engine rankings - have we perhaps just done something that will decrease the profile of the blogosphere? Of course I need to remind myself that its all relative - while my site may fall in its backlinks so will many others (including spammers) so maybe things wont change too much...

To be completely honest I'm a little torn here. I'm bracing myself for a bit of a hit as someone who makes his living from blogging - my motivation for arguing this case is partly selfish - I could have to go find a 'real job' again - but I also worry for the blogosphere a little.

Comment on the post....

Damn nice post, Mr. Sullivan.

Though I really wished you'd used kneecapping in there somewhere, it's such a great word.

Oh the irony...

Anil's blog is serving a Google Adwords ad just under the header and three of the four ads that I got were offering page rank boosting services.

But hey... it's not a competition ;)


um no, we know Anils views on SEO type competitions don't we? ;)

Hip, Hip!

>used kneecapping in there somewhere, it's such a great word.


If he could have worked this in too I would have been happier;

death of blogs

If I have this correct:

many of the active blogs will insert the nofollow tag
non used blogs will not insert no follow tag
blog spammers will hit "non used" blogs,google will follow these links
active blogs that will be getting real content and linking to other real blogs, will not get benefit of links

blog spammers will keep getting links from the "non used" blogs
blog spammers will continue to rank
active blogs will not get "counting" links from other blogs
active blogs will not rank

BLOGS will stop ranking in search engines

I admit to not playing in this world, but surely the only people this really effects are the people running active blogs. They don't get blog spammed, but they don't rank in search engines.


Worse than that

They do get blog spammed AND don't rank... they just get the good ol' feeling of knowing they are NOT passing any of their precious pagerank. heh. < sorry Nick, I do that too

Sure many spammers will take the time to pre-weed these blogs out, but many will not and will spam them nonetheless using the shotgun approach.

I know I got hundreds of comm

I know I got hundreds of comments last night.

I think some spam bots might be more active right now out of spite and just to prove how useless the NoFollow tag is.


In response to nuevojefe i was about to post that i have a damn good mind to dust off old faithful and go out on the rampage just to prove the point...

but seobook was there already. I'd say you were right Aaron..

>dust off old faithful fro

>dust off old faithful

from prior posts I thought it was only partially done?
BTW great pic NFFC :)


It got finished - always room for improvement...

It just never made it much further than test runs as TW went full-time about the time it was ready for action..

I can only guess here...

...but I like to think I'm good at that. So if I understand correctly, it might be fun to use your so-called "old-faithful" *) anyway. Just a thought. Might prove to people that the essence of spam is presence/annoyance (depending on which side of it you're on) and that PR comes second.

*) I DO mean the internet-related "old-faithful" hehe.


I dont have the time Wit - or really the inclination, other things to do :)

Like redesigning this place for starters - this is the third weekend im on that job and it's slow going but going well..


>> redesigning this place for starters

While you're at it... It's always fun for members to be able to see who else is online. Or is that too Big Brother-y?

I do have that option...

But have felt it was an invasion of privacy perhaps..

Anyone care to air an opinion on that?

Other thing i could do but wont do

  • Post counts
  • User ranks
  • Avatars

Not user ranks

They're so high schooly.

who's online?

is pretty useless really, since a lot of people log in and leave the browser open all day, I'm sure I show as online a lot of places when I'm off doing something else. It's not really an invasion of privacy to me though (although I don't like those places which tell you which forum people are mooching in)

I like the image/quote thing you've done Nick - looks very nice :)

's better than nowt...

...I just thought :)

Agree on the user ranks, although I wonder what some people do to get high ranks on some forums. Ewww.

Avatars are nice (to recognise someone by), but they take up a lot of space and would violate the compact-ness of this site. (Unless you can put up automatic avatar watermarks, using some kind of css trick. Well - I'm sure YOU can, but can the software?)


What? :-)

One thing i am doing which i think is nice...

Im putting the users details on each story - (they are there now but at the bottom of the post and partly at the top in the blue area) They'll be put there in a much cleaner, nice way.

The really cool thing (i think) is that the members homepage will show in those details IF the thread is promoted to the homepage - and only if. - subsequently, the /profile pages will be robots.txt'd

There is no link value to those profiles anyway - at least if there is its infintisimally small so why bother? but im thinking that other members and lurkers would be interested in the homepage of the guy/girl that submitted a post worthy of the TW homepage...

just don't implement dancing smilies


image overlaps quote.


Yeah, that works out quite nicely doen't it?


If i put smileys in here we'd never see rcjordan again heh...

Who's online?

Well I'm not saying it's essential...

But sometimes it's nice to have an alibi ;)

Just a thought

Now that Typepad has implemented "nofollow" in its trackbacks and comments, doesn't that turn Typepad blogs into PR hoarders?

Somehow I wonder if that isn't part of the equation - if we presume for a moment that some element of PageRank is useful for ranking purposes (even simply perceived to be), then Typepad have effectively done a dump on the rest of the blogosphere - Typepad blogs will take your PR but give nothing back.

As SixApart have been pretty lazy when it came to beginning to address comment spam issues, yet jumped into the "nofollow" issue like their pants were on fire, I guess it's worth looking at what they would gain:

1. Publicity
2. Possible greater visibility of Typepad blogs over other blog software

I'm just going back to my blog, so I can "nofollow" some links I have to a couple of Typepad hoarders...

>To be completely honest I'm

>To be completely honest I'm a little torn here ... my motivation for arguing this case is partly selfish

And there you have it. The crux of the matter is that when it comes to the major search engines the bloggers know they benefit from the Link-Farm-O-Matic feature of blogs and do not want to give up that advantage. There is a simple litmus test for this, ask a blogger if he thinks blogs should be fingerprinted and moved out of the main serps, i.e., given a tab.

I don't think they were tryin

I don't think they were trying to place TypePad above all other blogs. this move screwed ALL BLOGS so much that it really does not matter how they reshuffle.

also I do not think links in posts are NoFollow, just links in comments or trackbacks

PR Hoarding

Isn't PR hoarding mentioned in Goog's TOS... or is it too early for me to be thinking?

[quote]I don't think they wer

I don't think they were trying to place TypePad above all other blogs.

Indeed, maybe not - blogs traditionally have a lot of outbounds anywhere. But that Typepad should sever how Typepad blogs link to other blogs then the benefits and disadvantages are (in a simplified manner) somewhat one-way?

I'm still surprised by SixApart's enthusiasm for this, when it has plainly avoided implementing the simplest methods to its software for combating blog spam.

It only implemented comment registration by default on a basic install after Xmas, and even then it was server load on their hosted blogs they complained about - not comment spam as a practice overall.

I think that is pretty demonstrative of their attitude to actually dealing with this, so I'm therefore inclined to be very sceptical of SixApart's motivations in this manner.


I think that is pretty demonstrative of their attitude to actually dealing with this

That's the thing - right there.

They're big on whining, but absolutely refuse to poke their heads out of the blogosphere and take a look around. They're content to beleive that they know best, and that the world is a lovely place where if they just appeal to the good nature of the search engines (snigger..) all will suddenly be okay.

Some rather harsh reality checks will be slowly dawning on this group over the next few months:

  • Poor rankings - but that's okay, blogs are a communications tool right Anil?
  • Same/Heavier amounts of comment spam

Muppets, all of 'em.

> Agree on the user ranks, al

> Agree on the user ranks, although I wonder what some people do to get high ranks on some forums. Ewww.

With my top 4 rank at SEWF I should know. It's basically not very different from linkpop - you either earn it or "buy" it. I did not buy anything in this case. However, just like linkpop it's the owners of the backend that decides if they want to reset linkpop on some member if they feel it was not earned.

I have to say, Danny is usual

I have to say, Danny is usually so diplomatic when he comments on anything. I don't think I've ever seen Danny Sullivan 'let er rip' in any other article. Personally, I'd like to see it more often.


I'm still surprised by SixApart's enthusiasm for this, when it has plainly avoided implementing the simplest methods to its software for combating blog spam.

Not implement and miss all the publicity? They're loving piggybacking on all the notable mention the 3 major SE's are getting right now. All those potential future bloggers' eyes.

Have to say

SEOs are more likely to hoard PR, most bloggers aint got a clue about search (look at Seth Godin). Real test of this nofollow thing will be how many SEOs blogs implement it (many of them use redirects on links now or put trackbacks into a popup).

I've never understood...

why people bother to hoard PR - it just doesn't seem like their is enough benefit to go to all that trouble...

It really is quite beyond my comprehension

People are fixated with PR

It will take as long or longer to go away than "meta tags" and "monthly search engine submissions" :O)

Bloggers Whining - 'again' or 'still'?

1. Great post Danny!

2. Nick W said

Well Surprise Surprise - NoFollow don't work.. Bloggers are Whining - Again

Actually, Nick, I think the most technically correct statement is: is "The bloggers are still whining".




Glad to see you in here finally mate, pop on over and introduce yourself here - glad you made it out of lurkdom heh...

Yeah, bloggers whine - i was talking to a mate yesterday about another forum that's just had a nice redesign - he said it was "full of whiners" - man but that constant bitchin gets under the skin doesn't it?

I've just put "No whining" in the guidelines hah! They'll be getting an overhaul in the redesign but that one's worth popping in there now i think :-)

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