Search Engineers & Spammers

Source Title:
Something very rotten in the Googleplex
Story Text:

Duncan Riley has been getting his knickers in a bit of a twist over at the BlogHerald over Dave Naylor & Others socializing with Google engineer Matt Cutts, and founders Larry and Sergey recently.

That’s right folks: while we are slogging it out, trying to do the right thing, creating real content, and earning a few dollars with Adsense that just happens to help Google’s bottom line, the two head guys from Google are having drinks with a comment spammer and content thief, somebody who has probably used Google’s Blogger for the creation of fake blogs in an attempt to manipulate Google’s search results, and one of the high up software engineers who is suppose to be working on making sure the bad guys aren’t rewarded in the Google search index is arranging it all.

Time for a little reality check here Duncan.

Dave is not the only "spammer" Google, and Yahoo! are on very good terms with. In fact, there are a great many. It's quite common practice amongst tech companies to cosort, consult and socialize with their brand of "hacker", and all software has them.

Conferences are held, competitions launched, and meetings made between those that provide the platform, and those that try to exploit/break it - often the engineers and spammers are equally passionate about the technology, so not only have something very strong socially in common, but have a shared interest in learning from eachother.

This is just the way things work.

To get all shocked and upset about the fact that Google have an interest in those able to manipulate the system is naive at the very, very best.



Fair call,yes Im being niave, but there is still a bloody awful conflict of interest given Google keeps ignoring the spam on Blogger and continues to profit from these guys activities, particularly given the whole "Do No Evil" bullshit motto they are all suppose to work under. If they want to get all chummy with Dave and his ilk thats fine by me, but they should at least admit to the fact that they are purposely ignoring, and even profiting from Dave and

know your enemy

I'll defend Dave here as he is still probably in bed.

The guy knows his stuff and hence Google/Yahoo are benefitting from his knowledge. I have no doubt all the search engines are trying to stop the stuff as it does them no good in the long how best to learn how your results get to the people who do it.

Not being in the blog spam world I can't exactly comment, but from what I see poker and casino blogging is much more prevalent...and google make nothing there.


storm, meet teacup

has anyone here ever worked in any industry where you don't know several of your competitors/rivals/enemies on a social basis?

Call it pleasure, mitigation or spying but you're mad if you don't....

>Im being niave Not quite

>Im being niave

Not quite the word I would have chosen but it will suffice.

Life isn't always laid out in straightl ines. Instead of that line with spammers at one end and Google at the other pick up each end of the line and bring them together so it forms a circle. See?

Apart from that anybody whining about spam whilst running a mortgage refinancing blog [hehehe a mortgage refinancing BLOG, that kills me] needs to accept that maybe they are being just a tad hypocritical.

Sorry, Duncan, I have to disagree with you on this one

"Know thy enemy."

Seems pretty basic. I'm not saying L&S decided to be chummy with Dave to basically get him off his guard and spill the beans on his spammy ways... and I'm not saying they didn't. But hey, what did they have to lose by talking with the fella, really? From what I gather (and despite the fact that I loathe much of his behavior), it seems that Dave is a smart fella, and I'm sure he and the GoogleGuys had an interesting conversation. Maybe -- shock of shocks -- about some non-techie stuff, too. The Googlers (the ones I know, at least) are pretty fun to hang with, and no, we don't just talk tech.

I'm awake ...

Duncan your so right... with all the bad in the world someone has to make a stance.. why not me.. I will pick a top blog and pull it apart every week if you like ... I can look at your NETWORK next if you like ..


but Dave

but Dave, I'm still waiting for the lawyers to come knocking on my door.... How about if I'm a good boy and promise not to mention you again until at least the next time your silly enough to brag about how you use scrapers and comment spam?? Notice the hypocrisy? You're attacking Calacanis for allegedly bragging about some dodgy stuff and yet you brag to the press about dodgy stuff yourself. I have to watch my language otherwise Nick will edit this comment like the last one, but may I recommend a course of getting back in the closet, because if you hadn't been silly enough to brag about these tactics, you'd be left alone to do all the evil you want to in the first place.

this is a joke right?

engines socializing with spammers is one of the smartest things they have ever done IMO.


Last time I looked most of the remaining totalitarian places in the world were failing. I therefore find it odd that a blogger, one of those champions of free speech, would in an Orwellian move attempt to try to dictate who can meet with whom and who can talk with whom.

I also think singling out people or groups for demonization is pretty much something I would expect only from Doug Heil and his friends.

This is all a bit silly.

*leaves to go check the mortgage refinancing blog for today's news*


Dave - I was preparing for you to say something totally comical like:

"Duncan's right... It's totally wrong of Google to do this. How could that Dave guy be so cruel and unfair... I call foul!"

And Nick editing comments - that doesn't sound like him at all.

There wouldn't be spam

If they would have just listened the first time!

Nothing Orwellian here

The comment seems to only be questioning the judgment of who Google employees talk to. It's perfectly valid to criticize them for spending time with someone who contributes nothing of value. At the same time, I'm sure google engineers talk to people at the supermarket who also contribute nothing of value to the Internet. Maybe the guy is fun to have drinks with, or even fun to talk to like a Democrat may debate a Republican.

Still, it is a very valid point to criticize the semi-official time management of Google employees, just like it is valid to criticize the choices of the Google algorithm.


are you the guy that runs that Sexsite ..?


I think it's great!

Certainly it shows us that Larry and Sergey and Matt don't hate spammers/bh's whatever you want to call 'em.

That in and of itself is very good news to the entire SEM community because it shows there's no reason for wh's and bh's to dislike each other either. Many wh's didn't like bh's cuz they assumed the engines don't like them. Obviously they do, and/or they are much bigger people than many wh's.

I think it's great that we can all live, work and play in harmony with no hard feelings.

Sure, way may dislike spam in the search engines for many different reasons, but that doesn't mean we have to dislike the spammers who put it there. Those still clinging to their hatred of spammers now that both Yahoo and Google obviously embrace them, just need to cling to something I guess.

Insert :cheers: smiley here!


I don't HATE anybody (well, okay, not in this context at least). I hate tactics that make the Internet a less pleasant or productive place for me and others. And I typically dislike people whom I perceive to be responsible for behavior I deplore.

I mean, hey, if someone poops on my carpet or even on the public park bench I happen to sit on, I think it's reasonable for me to hate the poop, deplore the behavior, and strongly dislike the person.

The whole debate of what is more effective short-term and long-term for SEO is, IMHO, not the point. Nor do I think, frankly, that a meeting here or there between professionals indicates anything definitive about personal likes or dislikes. I have worked with people, even played nice with people I can't stand... either out of necessity or out of strategic cunning :)

> Certainly it shows us that Larry and Sergey and Matt don't hate spammers/bh's whatever you want to call 'em.

Certainly, barring mind reading skills, we have absolutely no way of knowing what's going through the minds of L, S, and M, and I think it's silly to definitively suggest otherwise.

I think it's great that we

I think it's great that we can all live, work and play in harmony with no hard feelings.

Hmph. Maybe when Larry and Sergey invite me out for drinks we'll be able to live, work and play in harmony.

I hate

those "good post" or "I agree" posts, but in this case, I have to tell Jill "Good Post" and I do agree with you.

Logic check

People talk to other people they dislike and even hate all the time, so them talking says nothing at all. Let's skip the non-logical conclusions.

They have alcohol, I have Sprite

And from that Cutts blog

At SES San Jose, Yahoo invited a passel of SEOs (including Dave Naylor) over to talk. I do the same thing when I chat with SEOs at conferences. They have alcohol, I have Sprite, and we all try to pick each others’ brains.

They have alcohol, I have

They have alcohol, I have Sprite, and we all try to pick each others’ brains.

Sounds just like spies during the Cold War.


He thinks it is Sprite.

[I did buy him once once, I'll tell you he watched me like a hawk whilst I was at the bar]


googledance .. I had one beer all day ... hmmm


I had one beer all day

So Dave,

If you had a choice of having 10 pints of double strength lager or an hour conversation with the owners of a popular Internet search engine

what would it be??

hehehe :)

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