CraigsList Spammin' and Jammin' Google with Subdomains

47 comments

C'mon Google what's the deal, with subdomains? Want to see Craigslist really rockin the house with subdomains look up [queer forum], that's gotta be 95 out of the top 100! Need another example look at [wedding forum] and scroll down to number 50 or so. You'll see Craigslist jammin' with subdomain dominance controlling about 50 listings! Umm ... so exactly how is that good for the end user? We going to hide behind the 'bad data push' again on this one?

Hat tip to crankydave.

Comments

Big Daddy

Is a garbage update. I'd also suggest a couple of things:

1. Stop saying spammin' and jammin' - it's annoying
2. Taking advantage of this little blip in the algorithm on an ongoing basis might be ill advised unless of course your goal is to spam Google.
3. Set up and maintain subdoomains only if they really make sense for your business or your client. I actually think subdomaining can be effective for presenting a site more relevantly - like cats.animals.com

This data push needs to be pushed right off the map and fixed...the only way recent updates to Google, Yahoo and MAN are any good is if you are spamming with wonderful sites like widget.myexboard.com/redirect=?www.mysketchyaffiliate.com/4353r698734354

blech.

more outing from threadwatch. Is this really necessary?

Okay so the BMW thing was interesting, and Colgate got annoying except for the stealth css thing, but c'mon graywolf is this all you have to do? Outing sites (whether they intend to spam or not), and crediting sites like cranky whatshisname? At least incrediBill has an agenda behind his cantankerousness, which makes it almost tolerable.

I can name a few top tier sites making serious cash off this approach to web publishing, which you would be hard-pressed to call spammers. Do you have a queer forum that doesn't rank and you're pissed at CL? What's with the aggression towards everyone who ranks? I'm sure if Google was concerned about the quality of it's queer forum serps the quality team would have done something about CL's dominance of that market (but probably not about their use of subdomains).

Outing and whining is the new SEO. Why learn to play chess if you can just upset the board until everyone who didn't leave agrees to play checkers?

outing

While I'm sure CL is quite happy to have all those listings I don't think it really was their intent.

No I don't compete in the queer forum space, so no agenda there. I do however think that while not completely broken Google has a lot that is seriously wrong with it now. It's over reliance on authority, lack of diversity, and poor crawling to name a few. I'd love to hear your opinion on how 95 out of 100 listings from one site is 'good for the user'. Covering up these 'bad data pushes' with hand jobs and hoping they go away is nothing more than a band-aid solution at best.

By using a more visible platform to highlight these problems maybe they have a better chance at getting fixed (squeaky wheel and all that jazz).

I think outing is not the issue here

Google has got big problems with this update, the backdoor to subdomain abuse appears to be open, it was probably very logical for Craigslist to use the subdomains as they are.

It may make sense in their setup to have all these subdomains, but really it is a Google issue.

95 of 100 is a very large nonsense result and yes sometimes I praise Google and sometimes they do need to be made aware and bashed, and no I am not gay.

So don't try that one, lol

Bad Data Push

Maybe it was a "Bad Data Push", maybe their data is bad and they pushed it ;)

C'mon John

That's a cheap shot to call it outing. Its a legit complaint about a seriously ridiculus flaw.

yeah... I don't consider

yeah... I don't consider that outing. It is merely revealing another broken front of a POS algorithm.

no cheap shot intended

If I intent to shoot, I shoot from the hip. There was no cheap shot intended.

That said, the post was not in the tone of an observance, but seemingly a criticism how subdomains are handled by Google. Google has stated that a subdomain is a unique website; we all know that. It was a conscious decision by Google. When it was important, Yahoo! did things differently, and we all considered the ramifications. That's the game.

Had the post highlighted that CL forums are NOT unique across subdomains, such that city1.forumname.cl is the same content as city2.forumname.cl, it would have been a legitimate contribution (and perhaps a reflection of how Google is missing these sites with the duplicate content, perhaps based on the redirection executed by CL on that architecture). Useful info. But as a slam against subdomains it just gets into the "look at how the subdomains are being handled" outing frenzy (as the comments confirm). It's so easy to broad-swipe at subdomains it's a wonder why Google hasn't just outlawed them yet (to all of our detriment)

This is not a subdomains issue... it's a redirection and dup content issue. Learn from it. Obviously Google was handling subdomain-based whole-page dup content differently than it handles same on interlinked sites (or at least it was until all you "seo's" begged Google to trash it). Read my lips: links across subdomains are not being handled the same as external nor internal links. Get it? Too bad, because it's too late to learn from it.

What crime was that Google was committing? Unfairly handing you smaller players an insider advantage? Oh, yeah, I forgot. That was the "not treating everyone favorably" crime that needs to be squashed for the sake of "righteousness". Duh. Silly me. I thought we were actually in the game to learn stuff like this for competitive advantage. My mistake. Or maybe just wrong forum. Either way, bottomline is what good comes of this post outing the CL penetration of these secondary SERPs? None side form a little PR for some blogger, and at the expense of a considerable piece of web marketing strategy.

Good points,

but not the point of the post. There was a question in the post,

so exactly how is that good for the end user?

that was the point. Most here are familiar with the benefits to be exploited with sub domains and are able to use that to a competitive advantage, but that doesnt change the fact that the SERPs still suck as a result.

Stop outing Queer Forums

Yeah stop outing Queer Forums.

They'll come out when they're good & ready.

:)

It is an interesting example of a big daddy side effect though...

Here's another one.... http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=google

GVote

It's November 2008 and the populous is upset at the widespread outing of massive vote fraud perpetrated by Diebold and ES&S. Amid the furor, you have the likes of Al Gore saying, as he did a few weeks back, In our system, there's no intermediate step between a definitive Supreme Court decision [ala 2000 election] and violent revolution.

Bush, fearful of the *obviously* incited-by-terrorists rallies over 3 three fraud-ridden elections, passes the Make Sure Your Vote Counts Act and entrusts none other than the very entity most Americans have trusted for years: Google. Google quickly rolls out GVote, which it unfurls via its dark fiber and modded-GBuy system.

The results come back...Bush wins AGAIN!, the crazy thing, however, is that Bush wasn't even on the ballot! O well, might as well go back to ES&S, who was recently removed from South Carolina, when it claimed that a college student received more votes than the incumbent. Guess we should have listened more closely when elected congress[wo]men publically expressed that the previous elections shouldn't have gone to Bush either and that we were ruled by a tyranny, that many (Feingold) of his action are illegal, and that he routinely trumps via fiat over 750 laws and resolutions passed by Congress, which Slate Magazine claims makes him an elective dictator.

Craigslist

seems to be a site that has great relevant results for countless phrases. I don't see anything wrong with several of their pages being present when you search for something. Subdomains or not is not the issue here. If you are looking for the best results for something, there are many terms to which prolly 3 out of 10 could be craigslist pages to satisfy the web searcher best.

Mike

seems to be a site that has

seems to be a site that has great relevant results for countless phrases. I don't see anything wrong with several of their pages being present when you search for something.

C'MON MIKE... do these seem relevant results to you ?

oh wow

I didn't scroll down. That's too much for sure!

Search in quotes returns

Search in quotes returns only 37K results.... what else is it supposed to return?

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=queer+forum&sm=Yahoo%21+Search&fr=FP-tab-web-t&toggle=1&cop=&ei=UTF-8

cranky whatshisname?

This is and was clearly a deficiency with Big Daddy, one I noticed nearly a month ago.

The only folks being "outed" is Google and their inability to handle subdomains properly. Then they come out and say... "Bad Data Push". Sugar coat it how you like fact remains, their ability to handle subdomains properly is busticated.

I don't use it but I'm rather certain that craigslist.org is a fine legitimate site. I don't doubt that their intent was NOT to spam. That's not in question as far as I'm concerned.

What is in question is whether or not Google is able to fix yet another Big Daddy problem and when. Matt Cutts suggested in his closing comments at PubCon in November 2005, that Google would be doing something about subdomain spam soon.

Is it soon yet?

Dave

Nothing wrong?

Quote:
seems to be a site that has great relevant results for countless phrases. I don't see anything wrong with several of their pages being present when you search for something.

Nothing wrong?

Click on the results. Every single page is identical.

Dave

Algo issue

Subdomains are not illegal or evil, just because the g$$g algo is broken doesn't mean ANYONE had a "bad" intent.

MY MY how everyone is so brainf*cked into jumping to their defense. g$$g got what they wanted in subdomains, now they don't like it and blame "spammers"?

Spammers?

Gratuitous opinion here, but the folks making out well here are more opportunists than anything. They've found a hole in the algo and are exploiting it. Even the folks that are doing it deliberately (which I'm not one), well, more power to you and I hope you're making a killing.

P.S., this is however a good example of why I don't run PPC on the content network.

John Andrews Hat Tip

I don’t know guys, John is making good sense to me and it is nice to see someone who is not afraid to step up in a time when it is popular to try to ruin Google’s reputation. In fact, Danny Sullivan (falling for that MSN link bait) recently was downright embarrassing! ;-(

Just look back in many of the recent posts, the majority are incorrect assumptions and are extremely mean spirited. I do not like to see people taking shots and Matt Cutts or Adam v2.0, it is really kind of lame because the reality is they are working for us all.

If there is a legit issue (like the subdomains thing) great, take credit for finding an error and pass it on. It’s just the way you guys sometimes do it.

Subdomains are very useful if you do not use them for spam; it is a shame that to earn some quick cash sleazy webmasters are ruining things for the rest of us. You actually believe that good sites never take a hit from spamming?

But you keep trying to turn Google into the demon; I will laugh all the way to the bank when they finally get a handle on this crap.

Spam is like taking a piss in a library.

Experts?

Why is it that everyone here is a freakin expert and no one who works at Google is? Do you all really think they're totally dumb? If so lets have a look at your search engines.........still waiting.

Don't need to be an expert

You don't need to be an "expert" to spot a problem. Unlike what John seems to suggest, I'm not inclined to sit around with the 3 "Do No" monkeys.

Additionally, the duplicate content problem you see with CL is confined to subdomains and not all domains. This makes it a problem in the way subdomains are handled when it comes duplicate content and not simply one of duplicate content. This certainly doesn't make subdomains bad.

Just like meta tags, navigational div's post Jagger, and reciprocal links post Big Daddy, if the "competitive advantage" of subdomains is also lost, you can credit it to those intent on gaming the system and Google's inability to yet again be able handle the abuse and internal problems algorithmically to the loss.

Dave

Do you all really think

Do you all really think they're totally dumb?

NO.. They are way smarter than my at least. And way smarter than most of the guys here. But it's easy to criticize, and to tell do X and Y, and it's harder to actually act on a 500.000 computer network array, and DO those things.

cheap shot intended

John, don't lie - you even had a cheap shot aimed my way in your first post.

Nice try, but the post don't lie.

G$$G needs CL

more than CL needs google, the engineers probably gave a tweak to crawlers to get at CL stuff and in the process some guy who had an exotic rewrite got lucky.

Bottom line is someone gave sub.sub.domains a boost in the algo. The real question is WHY. Figure that out and you might get somewhere.

Warning: The Surgeon General

has determined that sticking your nose to far up a Googler's ass may be hazardous to your health.

Aaron, if you are waiting for "when they finally get a handle on this crap" before you make it to the bank, I hope you have been saving for a rainy day.

critical mass

hey Aaron, TW has achieved critical mass with the membership diversity. This is the first thread that actually makes no sense.

Quote:
Just like meta tags, navigational div's post Jagger, and reciprocal links post Big Daddy, if the "competitive advantage" of subdomains is also lost, you can credit it to those intent on gaming the system and Google's inability to yet again be able handle the abuse and internal problems algorithmically to the loss.

Wrong. By seo "standards" of yesterday a cryptic tip regarding Google's lack of dup content filtering on subdomains -- even a simple "hey, look at this" would enable TW members to experiment with subdomains and achieve significant improvements in their G penetration. Some would spam, sure, but others would just enhance their already competitive sites, and some would bring it to their clients as a way beyond the sandbox hell they experience now. It would have been a contribution that would last who knows how long, just like every other technique that seems to work.

Instead, we see "seo of today" post something like "wow guys, look at all this SPAM" which sets the stage for a prompt shutdown if nothing else. Thanks a bunch. What the hell was that about?

Try as I might I don't see the gains from such outing. Graywolf's site looks (to me) like an MFA blog, which is sad if that's the monetization plan. Is it "thought leadership"? Not from my perspective... no leadership in shouting SPAM! on what might have been an exploitable commercial opportunity for the SEOs who know how to handle their web servers. Geeesh.

Once again

Quote:
Just like meta tags, navigational div's post Jagger, and reciprocal links post Big Daddy, if the "competitive advantage" of subdomains is also lost, you can credit it to those intent on gaming the system and Google's inability to yet again be able handle the abuse and internal problems algorithmically to the loss.

I call bullshit. CL wasn't "gaming the system" and neither is X or Y or Z (I will not name them, but they are premier publishers and successfully using subdomains to rule their SERPs appropriately). Google "failing" to handle something? Give me a break. Google chooses to handle whatever it wants, and when it doesn't slap down some technique the only failure is the failure of the so-called SEOs to capitalize on it.

PS: Hey Bill, not everything is a conspiracy :-) BTW, still going strong after 4 weeks and not shut out even ONCE. This is getting boring.

Spam is like taking a piss

Spam is like taking a piss in a library.

One man's spam...

I bet piss porn is a highly profitable niche for those who see past the ethics garbage people throw at them.

Actually, Google brought this entirely on themselves...

This whole thing would be nothing but a very brief distraction for everybody except for one thing. Ever since Big Daddy, thousands of webmasters had to deal with massive deindexing.

Eventually, after months of them bitching, Matt Cutts replies. His answer:

guys, you just didn't get enough QUALITY links. You're not trying hard enough to earn Google's respect. Google will only fully index QUALITY sites. If you're not PROVIDING QUALITY to your visitors, then there's no surprise you can't rank. You guys just don't care enough about QUALITY.

So they meekly crawl away, wondering how to impress the great Google Gods enough to get their sites listed. Not all top 10-ish, but listed enough so they have a chance at those long tail terms that they thought of and no one else did, that brings in a few extra bucks here and there.

Then here comes someone who gets 5 billion pages indexed in a matter of weeks, resulting in thousands of top listings.

The only thing that surprises me about the reaction is that the head guys there haven't gotten lynched yet, and I'm crediting that to the fact that they can each probably afford their own small armies. :)

-Michael

(no subject)

I bet piss porn is a highly profitable niche for those who see past the ethics garbage people throw at them.

Librarian porn too, I bet.

-Michael

It isnt about SEOs

its about the results.

no leadership in shouting SPAM! on what might have been an exploitable commercial opportunity for the SEOs who know how to handle their web servers. Geeesh.

You only want to look at this from the SEO "opportunity" perspective. Has it ever occurred to you that some here, while fully capable of exploiting a loophole, still get tired of seeing crap for results?

I would just as soon see Google get their shit together, but until then, I understand the rules of engagement and am more than willing to do what it takes. I just would prefer to compete head up against quality as opposed to shit, so I see no problem with bitching (outing) about the crap Google serves up.

Ugh, that's just awful to look at...

all of those subdomains. Those are just bad results. And whether or not Google is smart enough to do it better or not, those results are still crap. I don't blame CL - subdomains serve a purpose for them, and it's not for spamming. They don't need to spam. If they disappeared from search engines, people would still go to Craigslist.

Oh, and to answer a question that was up there somewhere - I'm gay and not once have I ever searched for "queer forum". But if I did, I would expect to see PlanetOut or Gay.com's forums, not dozens of Craigslist subdomains.

check out deals.hotels.com

check out deals.hotels.com for subdomain spamming

site wide crosslinking..hidden links...spammed backlinks where the backlink pages themselves are cloaked for the deals.hotels.com link...

Utter nonsense

Quote:
Wrong. By seo "standards" of yesterday a cryptic tip regarding Google's lack of dup content filtering on subdomains -- even a simple "hey, look at this" would enable TW members to experiment with subdomains and achieve significant improvements in their G penetration. Some would spam, sure, but others would just enhance their already competitive sites, and some would bring it to their clients as a way beyond the sandbox hell they experience now. It would have been a contribution that would last who knows how long, just like every other technique that seems to work.

Instead, we see "seo of today" post something like "wow guys, look at all this SPAM" which sets the stage for a prompt shutdown if nothing else. Thanks a bunch. What the hell was that about?

Cryptic tip?

Lets see... the appearance of 5 billion spam pages clogging up the SERP's and you're looking for a cryptic tip?

CL is set up to serve identical content across hundreds of subdomains. You seem like a smart guy John, bet you can figure out for what purpose. Here's a clue... wasn't for delivering unique, quality content.

Neither of these is exactly what I'd call "leadership" but you're welcome to if you wish.

Quote:
Google "failing" to handle something? Give me a break. Google chooses to handle whatever it wants, and when it doesn't slap down some technique the only failure is the failure of the so-called SEOs to capitalize on it.

More nonsense.

Yes, by all means, let's all sit around with the 3 "Do No" monkeys when Google serves up bullshit. Afterall, they know exactly what they are doing and everything is working exactly as it should. Just ask them and they'll tell you so. Folks were "exploiting a commercial opportunity" that was made so ridiculously obvious by Googles failure that even a blind squirrel could have seen it. And you blame the squirrel. Nice.

Dave

Only because...

they got thrown in with the title of this thread....standard fluff piece just now appearing at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13439174/

This article is BS.

This article is BS.

confusing CrankyDave

hey, let's slow down. Someone's getting confused.

The CL post is not about 5 billion domains indexed. That was another thread. And that was unique content. The CL issue is about Cl forums, which are *duplicate* content. And CL does not have a unique forum per city... probably because there isn't enough forum traffic. But not because people in City1 or City2 won't want a queer forum. So of course present them with the forum so they can click thru.

Alas, it seems there is a hole in Google's dup content "filter". CL's forums are being listed as unique. How nice.

Now do you:

a) post a public statement that Google sucks, CL is SPAMMING and wait for the "they suck" comments to make you feel less lonely as a misunderstood webmaster
b) understand that queer forum is not a competitive serp, and this "glitch" may be revealing a "market inefficiency" in Google's spam control algo that may be useful to you if you ride the gray line of seo
c) add wildcard DNS to your scraper site and start offering geo-ip-based "who's hot in your neighborhood" affiliate links to FBuddyFinder.net across your 2 million new virtual subdomains pulled from the census bureau's placenames database
d) act like an idiot

Come on, pick one. I know you can do it.

missed one

C'mon john you left one out...

e) act like an arrogant smug know-it-all resort to name calling and attempt to belittle others

Some choices for you

Quote:
hey, let's slow down. Someone's getting confused.

Okay, I'll type slower and use smaller words.

You are right CL is about duplicate content. A dupe proplem you'll only find as it pertains to subdomains. With me so far? Google either figures out how to properly handle subdomains when it comes to duplicate content or something else. You don't like the something else part huh? For sites using subdomains properly and efficiently, Google figuring out how to better handle subdomains so their index isn't littered with dupes and spam aren't bothered in the least and as a matter of fact end up better off because there's less clutter to get in their way. Google does what they want to do remember? Or are you frightened that I have some sort of grand influence over the plex and what they do?

Do you...

A. Continue to insist folks sit with you and the 3 "Do No" monkeys in the hallowed name of exploitation.

B. Whine and cry about webmasters actually having to serve up some real content as their competitive advantage instead exploiting loopholes.

C. Understand that it's about another serious flaw in algorithm and quit whining about how another exploitable loophole might get closed causing webmasters to actually have to outperform their competition, and that it has nothing to do about how competitive a term is or is not.

D. Continue being pompous and insist it's the blind squirrels fault.

E. All of the above

If you're having a hard time choosing, I'd be pleased to offer a suggestion.

Dave

not really

Quote:
e) act like an arrogant smug know-it-all resort to name calling and attempt to belittle others

No, not really. I'm not acting, and I didn't resort to anything. And I have no objective of belittling others.

I'm complaining about whining and outing, and marveling at how search people choose to point and yell "spam!" instead of seeking understanding, as if Google was a person. The more you push Google to react, the more they become a person instead of an algo/system/process. That means politics and money replace SEO as a means of ranking. Is that what you want? If so, why?

I'm sorry but I don't follow the "do no monkey" and "blind squirrel" stuff... must be young people talk.

Young people talk

Quote:
I'm sorry but I don't follow the "do no monkey" and "blind squirrel" stuff... must be young people talk.

LOL! I'll let you go back and reread the posts and figure out the "blind squirrel" on your own, but I'll give you a hint about the 3 "Do No" monkeys "young people talk"...

http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/reality/2004/images/1002/monkey3.jpg

Dave

Is that what you want?

Quote:
That means politics and money replace SEO as a means of ranking. Is that what you want? If so, why?

The faculty and professors at Harvard, Stanford, MIT, etc get their "rankings" by their knowledge, seen through interviews, research they are involved in, and their publications. Fundamentally, "content."

State, local and federal politicians get there either by a popularity vote, or by spending a lot of money on advertising, exploiting loopholes, or taking advantage of "econmoic opportunities" or any combination of the above.

Now, consider the quality of the results of the two methods.

What method do you think Google and Big Daddy is using right now?

Dave

Tip of the cap to Pemburung for the quotes I used of his.

OMFG

My god we're drowning in assumptions these days.

Quote:
The faculty and professors at Harvard, Stanford, MIT, etc get their "rankings" by their knowledge, seen through interviews, research they are involved in, and their publications. Fundamentally, "content."

If you think that university faculty status and achievement is merit based, as this statement seems to suggest, I can't help you. There is as much politics in academia today as the washington beltway. Everything from research integrity to peer review to informed consent can and is challenged, and the outcome is not usually very pretty. Of course we can't have that front and center public knowledge, or we might awaken the curiosity of the marginalized common man. No no no.

Quote:
State, local and federal politicians get there either by a popularity vote, or by spending a lot of money on advertising, exploiting loopholes, or taking advantage of "econmoic opportunities" or any combination of the above.

Huh? Popularity vote? Advertising? If anything, today's "local" elected officials probably want to minimize their public exposure in favor of programmed public relations. It's all *insider* work, not the "popular" work you cite. Maybe in Montana you can elect an official in a popularity contest, but not in any state with significant interests (unions, law enforcement, academia, "minorities") as they control the access to the positions.

I can only guess that since we are not talking the same politics, we can't refer to seo being replaced by a political system. It must not make any sense. Let's refrain, ok? As for the quality issue, obviously you and I see quality in academia and politics quite differently. Obviously we can't qualitatively discuss seo as relative to those, and by extension we probably see seo quite differently as well. These assumptions are deafening.

No point in continuing?

Do you actually read what is posted?

Quote:
If you think that university faculty status and achievement is merit based, as this statement seems to suggest, I can't help you. There is as much politics in academia today as the washington beltway. Everything from research integrity to peer review to informed consent can and is challenged, and the outcome is not usually very pretty. Of course we can't have that front and center public knowledge, or we might awaken the curiosity of the marginalized common man. No no no.

If you think that "merit" is simply thrown out the window in favor of "cronyism" then I'm not sure where to begin. I'm sure the combined faculties would be pleased to discuss your thought on how their "merits" hold little value in terms of attaining their position. Think not mutually exclusive okay?

Quote:
Huh? Popularity vote? Advertising? If anything, today's "local" elected officials probably want to minimize their public exposure in favor of programmed public relations. It's all *insider* work, not the "popular" work you cite. Maybe in Montana you can elect an official in a popularity contest, but not in any state with significant interests (unions, law enforcement, academia, "minorities") as they control the access to the positions.

What part of "spending lots of money on advertising" is unclear to you? If you'd like to discuss what forms of advertising, where and how, we can, but you really need to try and read the posts first.

Let's see, in all local elections they count the votes and the one with the most wins. It's called "the popular vote". Then, note the word OR. Try reading what is written instead of twisting it into something else. Rather presumptious in my opinion.

Let's see, you were the one who suggested that rankings were determined by SEO and not money and politics. There is literally nothing that isn't influenced by money and "politics". If you think rankings aren't, I can't help you either. Greed is a powerful motivator.

You're probably right. You have to be able to listen and comprehend what is being written without filling them full of baseless and misdirected assumptions. Qualitatively discussing anything, let alone SEO, would be frustrating to say the least.

Dave

.

LOL, Dave.

As a recovering politician

I have to agree with John.

What part of "spending lots of money on advertising" is unclear to you?

There are always a few that spend their own money, but John nailed it here

If anything, today's "local" elected officials probably want to minimize their public exposure in favor of programmed public relations. It's all *insider* work, not the "popular" work you cite. Maybe in Montana you can elect an official in a popularity contest, but not in any state with significant interests (unions, law enforcement, academia, "minorities") as they control the access to the positions.

Not sure what any of this has to do with subdomains and dupe content though.

Let's face it people... This update is perhaps one of the worst

Let's face it people.. if a site (any site) can take the first 100 results just using cpanel and a 5 dollar a month hosting account it means that something is wrong with the Big Daddy update.

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