'Yahoo Betrayed My Husband'

19 comments

"Yahoo betrayed my husband and deprived him of freedom," Yu says through a translator, her voice trembling. "Yahoo must learn its lesson."

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From the Article:

Quote:
Moments later, government agents swarm through the front door -- 10 of them, some in uniform, some not. They take Wang away. They take his computers and disks. They shove an official notice into Yu's hands, tell her to keep quiet, and leave. This is how it's done in China. This is how the internet police grab you.

At least now we have a true feeling of what happens when Yahoo keeps handing over all this data to China.

Comments

So, is it better or worse

So, is it better or worse when the FBI busts your door down, and takes you away for running a phishing scam? What if you were running a "white power" site? Should Yahoo defend your right to privacy then?

Regardless of anyones opinions on the morality of the Chinese regime, it is what it is, and their laws are what they are. If you knowingly break them, you know there could be consequences. I can't say I particularly approve of China in general, but I can't fault Yahoo for obeying the local law.

Flip it over - what would your reaction be to a Chinese company coming to a Western country, and applying their own values to their operations here? What if they ignored the US / UK / Whatever laws that they didn't agree with?

"Well, we don't pay much tax in China - we just bribe the right officals and get away with it, so we won't bother paying any US Corporation Tax. What? What did we say?"

"Regardless of anyones

"Regardless of anyones opinions on the morality of the Chinese regime, it is what it is, and their laws are what they are. If you knowingly break them, you know there could be consequences. I can't say I particularly approve of China in general, but I can't fault Yahoo for obeying the local law."

"Yu's husband is now in Beijing Prison No. 2, serving a 10-year sentence for inciting subversion with his pro-democracy internet writings. According to the written court verdict, the Chinese government convicted Wang, in part, on evidence provided by Yahoo."

Tall Troll - that sounds a bit harsh considering he was charged with "pro-democracy internet writings." We arent talking about a man who was out to mislead and hurt people but more than likely a man who was trying to help the people. Just because there is a law for something doesnt mean it is right or fair (like we dont have hundreds of those). That law exists to protect the elite few in government and to keep them in power and the people opressed.

So its ok to make a deal with the devil as long as you get to do business in his country? That price is to high for me....of course I still have a soul. I didnt trade it for a suit, corrupt money and appeasement of a regime as many executives have decided to do.

>> We arent talking about a

>> We arent talking about a man who was out to mislead and hurt people but more than likely a man who was trying to help the people

Funny thing, in both China and the West, the law is the law. If you get caught breaking it, there are consequences. You can argue endlessly about exactly what *should* be criminalised, and the proportionality of punishment to a given crime, but the essential principle remains. Are you saying that you believe that companies, or individuals should get to choose which laws they obey?

>> That law exists to protect the elite few in government and to keep them in power and the people opressed.

I'm sure many Chinese citizens are as bemused, even disgusted by the US political system. Any political system is composed of people, and people have failings and flaws. Again, I'll say that I personally disapporve of the Chinese regime, but my opinion isn't the issue, nor is yours, and nor is anyones who isn't a Chinese citizen.

>> So its ok to make a deal with the devil as long as you get to do business in his country?

Successive US Administrations seem to have thought exactly that. Sandanistas, Iran / Contra, Maunuel Noriega, the Mujahadeen, Saddam Hussein (back when he was the US best friend), Israel (let's show some even-handedness too...) - I'm sure there's more current stuff in the news right now, too. I really don't the the US a nation has any more right to the moral high ground here

"I really don't the the US a

"I really don't the the US a nation has any more right to the moral high ground here."

Whose talking about a nation? Im talking about me. I dont need to get started on whats wrong with the good ole USA (although I wouldnt want to live anywhere else).

Im talking about a view of an American company who is there for profit, turning over information to an opressive government about a man who is speaking about basic freedoms (human rights?) said companies HQ gets to enjoy.

Did it matter that under Hitler that the Jews were persecuted and murdered (or worse) or was it ok because of the various laws? You cant just say well a law is a law and thats that - they should have known better.

Jeff ..

I think you can say a law is a law and thats it... really

I agree that it would be nice to do something but we can't, when we do, we tend to invade the country kick fuck out of it, then wonder how the hell we can ever leave and make it better for the people of that country.

I wonder if china would be a better place if there was a US embargo, could the Us survive with out the made in china products .. dunno but best guess it will never be tested.

DaveN

Of course the other side of

Of course the other side of the coin is that involvement by Western companies and business may help to change that regime. Probably more than embargoes or sanctions seem to do if recent events are anything to go by.

As someone who lives and works in Russia I have to agree with TallTroll. If you're in that situation you have to abide by the local laws. You can choose not to be there of course but otherwise there's no choice.

>could the US survive with out the made in china products

Not a chance - but no more than most countries. We've pushed the prices down to such an extent now no one else can compete but China. The city I live in here was the textile centre for Russia a few years back, now the factories have all closed down, skills lost etc. We can't turn back the clock to start all these businesses up again.

The best option is to work with China and build some economic leverage to improve these kind of situations.

>>could the US survive

could the Us survive with out the made in china products

No doubt it would hurt the U.S., but it would destroy China to lose billions in trade deficit.

I think I agree with Jeff. You can't say a law is just a law. A law is representative of the morality of the people who enacted that law. If a law only existed to serve itself and did not reflect the people then the world would be much different. In the U.S. women wouldn't vote, slavery would still be practiced and the U.S. would be a British colony.

Every person or every company has to make a choice as to which moral compass they follow. If you don't agree with the laws of a country then don't do business with them. I suspect that many Threadwatch members already do something similar - I know there are certain industries I won't work in - even though the money would be great.

Yahoo obviously agrees with the laws of China because their moral compass follows the same thing that all large companies crave - money.

"Regardless of anyones

"Regardless of anyones opinions on the morality of the Chinese regime, it is what it is, and their laws are what they are. If you knowingly break them,"

Sorry, this does not wash. Nobody forces Western companies to do business in China.

The USSR had laws, the Third Reich had laws, the government in Vichy had laws, all the evil things they did had some sort of legal facade at the time. In America, the slave states had laws, and the Jim Crow laws were, well, laws. Lots of evil things hide behind the law. The law is supposed to be a tool for the administration of justice and not a mechanism for oppression nor a rationalization for corporate collaboration.

>> In the U.S. women

>> In the U.S. women wouldn't vote, slavery would still be practiced and the U.S. would be a British colony.

Interestingly, all of those changes were economically led, not morally led. Without economic exchange with China, how do you hope ever to influence them? North Koreans aren't benefitting greatly from the world moral outrage at their plight, are they?

Crock of hysterical crap

Her husband was breaking the law but it's Yahoo's problem for complying with the law?

What ever happened to PERSONAL accountability?

Why blame your husband for his subversion when you can sue a deep pocket!

Wang

I wonder if what he was looking at was worth it?

Ka Ching

I guess I'll set up in China to exploit (err..I mean help democratize) the Chinese people too ;)

I need to do something good to get into heaven.

When in Rome act like a Roman, and when in China...

Can't blame Yahoo! for adjusting to the Chinese culture,
seems like the Chinese legal dept got busy lately.

@Jeff

Quote:
Tall Troll - that sounds a bit harsh considering he was charged with "pro-democracy internet writings." We arent talking about a man who was out to mislead and hurt people but more than likely a man who was trying to help the people.

That's perfect. Because it's democracy and you live in the US, you think democracy is good and so his actions (promoting democracy in China) are benevolent? Are you trying to be an example of the ignorant American?

Open your mind a wee bit and consider that in another country and culture, democracy may be viewed as bad (for any number of reasons). If that is *possible*, then isn't it "bad" for someone to break the law in that country by promoting something bad?

I'm not saying democracy is bad. I'm just saying democratic peoples may not be the know-it-all smarty pants of the universe, and certainly shouldn't be imposing their own views *against the local laws* in other cultures and countries unless they are prepared to support the common people of those countries when their systems fail.

If you believe we should be sending missionaries around the world to convert the ignorant heathen savages to our divine religions, or if you believe we should be actively undermining non-democratic nations' political systems in order to "spread democracy", or if you agree that witches should be burned, Muslims deported to sandier climes and illegal immigrants branded so they can qualify for live-in house cleaning jobs here in America, then we should probably stop talking politics before it gets ugly :-)

Sadly,

my quest for political enlightenment at Threadwatch goes unfulfilled. Maybe I should try Susan Sarandon, Martin Sheen or Sean Penn. Though not as erudite as people here they definitely seem to have opinions. At least no one here has chimed in with 'the U.S. is a democracy' or some blather about making the trains run on time. Wake up Aaron! ; )

Yes, who says democracy is best?

The world has hit dire ecological times with the spread of democracy and capitalism.

Perhaps what is needed to save the world is a heavy handed Chinese government to keep consumption in check. They managed to control their ballooning birth rate and bird flu though authoritarianism after all.

Democracy clearly isn't able to stop us shitting in our own beds.

It's Clear Now

It's all clear now. I know why Yahoo isn't taking the lead in search technology. They've been busy building prisons.

>>"Yahoo betrayed my husband and deprived him of freedom,

Shit you say? Yahoo has someone locked up? Could that POS article be slanted more?

>>This is how the internet police grab you

Internet Police? Are they sure it wasn't the Chinese State Police?

when you play with pigs

you get muddy

> I think you can say a law is a law and thats it... really

laughable

slavery, genocide, rape, have all been made law

in this case, it's a much more subtle, but still important, human rights violation, and yes, yahoo sinned.

You maybe right Andy but

You maybe right Andy but thanks to Iraq we're now entering a *long* period of political realism. I still think the best option is involvement rather than isolation but seriously - what other choice do we have with the current geopolitical situation?

Bush/Blair did much more damage than I think either of them realise, I don't think history is going to be too kind on them.

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