Is Matt FUDing it ?

26 comments

My good mate and yours, Matt, posted on his blog that is is a bad thing to allow others to use your resources.

He said about email:

Quote:
If someone came to you and said “I want to rent out your mail server. I’d like to send out some emails from your server, and I’ll give you $N to do it,” you’d be suspicious and probably say no–unless you wanted your mail server to end up on email blacklists.

then said this about web space:

Quote:
if someone comes to you and says “I’ll give you $N to rent subdomains, subdirectories, or pages from you. Just link to my doorway pages from your content,” I would recommend to say no as well.

adding at the end :

Quote:
it can affect the reputation of your domain if you host doorway pages for someone else and then that other person creates spam on the pages on your domain.

I have to ask the question, "Isn't this just blatant FUD (Fear Uncertaintity and Doubt) spreading ?"

A normal sales route of applying FUD (ala IBM et al) is to give a legitimate generic example of a "bad thing" then offer that example of proof of why another thing, similarly related is bad. To me this smells of FUD!

I can't say I blame Matt, as it's a lost more cost effective to use his spam fighting budget in spreading FUD than beating spam, but personally I know the system works and it seems so do some of his commentors.

Quote:
Valentine Said:

I am seeing this on quite a regular basis now. I won’t name names as last time I did my post got deleted but I am seeing these pages on highly respected newspaper sites.

Comments

FUD - sure. it can affect

FUD - sure.

it can affect the reputation of your domain if you host doorway pages for someone else and then that other person creates spam on the pages on your domain.

I think this is pretty obvious though. It's no different than if you host spam on your own domain... of course spammy practices are going to bring down you site's trust or at least get you flagged for manual review.

Trying to fight off content

Trying to fight off content hosting / presell pages because their algorithms place WAY TOO MUCH trust on the domain age and link quality of the domain.

They are simply evolving SEO:
meta tags
page content
links
quality links
hosting pages or buying sites

eventually they are going to have to put less weight on domain age and links or they are going to inspire lots of hosted content renting

Google picks what holes they want people to exploit...and people exploit them.

Matts good

at telling us what works.

Anti-Advertising

Let's rephrase some of matt's statements and see how it looks

If someone came to you and said “I want to rent out your broadcast time. I’d like to send out some commercials on your TV network, and I’ll give you $N to do it,”

or

If someone came to you and said “I want to rent out your newspaper page. I’d like to send out some printed advertisements in your newspaper, , and I’ll give you $N to do it,”

or

If someone came to you and said “I want to rent out your celebrity reputation. I’d like to send out some celebrity endorsements, and I’ll give you $N to do it,”

It's Google's fault that their algo doesn't deal well with advertising methods that have been around in many cases for centuries. They have quite enough brainpower and financial resources to tackle the problem, instead of trying to rebuild the world in thier own view.

Its all just

a ploy to "we own your advertising budget". Paid advertising has always been a quality signal.

We have a great product but lets keep it to ourselves!

I've made so much more money

I've made so much more money since I've stopped doing things the way search engines tell me to do them.

DaveN said something on

DaveN said something on Strikepoint once that I loved, to paraphrase, "Anytime a search engine tells me not to do something I run out and do it as much as I can".

Google's fault

graywolf, brilliantly stated.

I'd go even further and suggest that G is over-reacting to these methods, precisely because they ARE standard ways in which marketers have promoted themselves in other media, basically forever. Point being, there is no 'fault' really, since I'm not at all sure the practive is anything other than a widely utilized strategy of message distribution -- strategies that, like so many other trends in Web marketing, the smart advertisers in other media have been doing for decades, if not centuries.

I just don't see a difference between placing my ad on a city's street corner, or a paper's auto's page, or a college student's T-Shirt, or a bar coaster at hot spots in major metros, or a Web page of a well travelled site. It's all just good, smart, marketing. Unless of course you do 'sneaky redirects.' ;-)

FUD? Hell yeah!

Of course it's FUD. Isn't Matt the King of FUD and pretty much what he does? I've been calling it propaganda, but FUD works too. I just never knew what FUD stood for until now!

It's FUD, and working quite well

It certainly is FUD and something they've been doing for awhile. Look at his blog (or as some call it, his FAQ) and see him call out sites and show you how good Google is at catching these mistakes. It's caused a frenzy over the years in the SEO community and you can see it today from average webmasters.

I've had guys tell me they can't sell me an advertising spot because it might be seen as selling a link. I've had people ask me to take down a link to their site because it was on a PR 0 page. One look at most SEO boards and you can see a plethora of conspiracy theories contrived from posts and comments made by Google.

Why does Google do it? Because they have to in a way. There are simply things that no algorithim will ever be able to catch. Humans can outsmart computers and some will always be one step ahead. Stirring up the waters allows for misinformation and theories that lead people to question themselves when building their site. I guess it helps Google, but in a way it is bad for the Internet. It is sad to see a client ask me whether it is safe to trade a link with a manufacturer that they sell parts for.

"it can affect the

"it can affect the reputation of your domain if you host doorway pages for someone else and then that other person creates spam on the pages on your domain."

HMMMM so Matts is saying lets all say fuck off to Googlepages?? wow weird ;)

DaveN

fuck off, indeed

lets all say fuck off to Googlepages

  • Blogger - the original® splog generator

  • Blogspot.com - the orginal® splog host - see also: Get Your Blogspot Shit Together Google
  • Spamsense - the original® splog monitization method (Google doesn't even care AFTER they catch spamming sites, as proved by Matt)

    Also Matt mentioned using a mailserver for spamming affecting reputation. Bad analogy. Well what about the Gmail spam problems?

    Weren't they recently blacklisted
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gmail#Blacklisted

    Notice that Google only cares about providing tips to stop spamming their index while they provide the tools and framework to spam and monetize other indexes. Neat that, eh?

    At best, Matt's recent post was 100% hypocritical.

  • FUD

    Nothing like yummy FUD, maybe head over for lunch.

    Graywolf's analogy is interesting but has holes in that even TV, Radio and Newspaper ads have limits and censor the types of things you can advertise.

    Trust me, nobody will be seeing any TV ads for the local S&M spankfest and swat-a-thon showing up any time soon, otherwise the TV station would be PENALIZED by the FCC.

    I think that's more of less is what Matt's trying to say is if you let bad people post bad things on your domain then the Google FCC algorithm will penalize your ass.

    Come on people, stop arguing that it's OK to game the system and comparing it with advertisements, silly.

    Spamsense and Splogger

    If they don't care then why are they zapping sites Splogfighter reports?

    It doesn't work both ways, they can't ignore them and zap them and remain indifferent.

    If they don't care then why

    If they don't care then why are they zapping sites Splogfighter reports?

    Why must Splogfighter exist as an external entity?

    Does that mean it is a real priority that they actually care about? Nope. Probably the opposite when you think about it.

    Think how sketchy that is:

    • smart people
    • cash flush company
    • who heavily automate stuff
    • already pay people to review websites

    Yet when their search engineers catch spam sites with AdSense they do nothing?

    And they outsource quality control to some random blogger. Is it even possible that they could show less concern?

    We will just outsource

    We will just outsource quality control to some random blogger. Is it even possible that they could show less concern?

    Bingo

    And yea I agree with above -- why does MC's blog need to highlight when he 'catches' sites? Not because they always (or usually) 'catch' them -- because he needs to convince people that they do!

    Lack of concern

    I truly think the lack of effort and concern in their Adsense program will be the downfall of it (not completely but they will lose signifigant market share in this field).

    The only people it hurts are legit advertisers and legit publishers. The two people in the end that you want to keep happy.

    I still can't fathom how a billion dollar company can't hire a few engineers, some qualtiy control people, and just spend their time building out better systems for this. It's amazing that I still need to call Google to ask them for a refund on $700 worth of clicks residing from the same IP address in 24 hours on a term that maybe gets 5-10 clicks a day. It's amazing that some random splog can send me more traffic in a day than all the legit sites can combined and Google doesn't find it fishy.

    My personal belief is they don't care because they are making money. 99% of advertisers won't track as well as I do nor request refunds. It's like having Gilette have quality control on their new razor done by some guy working out of his house in the suburbs.

    That's an INSULT

    To guys working out of their homes in the suburbs.

    They would probably do a better job.

    Response to Bill

    One of the funniest things I notice is you'll see viagra, cialis, and levitra commercials on every major televsion network during almost every sports broadcast, especially the important ones. They don't care about "being connected to bad neighborhoods".

    Online however you'll have much harder time finding someone who will accept an advertising link for any of those topics, and if you do you'll pay a premium for it. The flaws in Google's algo clearly have affected and distorted the advertising market. I'm talking about quality sites not sites like the spamford daily newspaper ;-)

    I want to rent out your mail server

    oh, never mind, gmail is free.

    ouch

    Well today one of you hypermacho SEO gurus appeared in a space I have dominated for years and man is it ugly. Overnight it appeared... 50,000+ pages in subdomains of superfueled SEO content off of a .info, going after the long tail first, ratcheting back to the money terms. Yes, yes I am very much aware that this is but a "test" ladies and gentlemen, and I am impressed muscle-beach style with the exercise. I also know it's BigDaddy convulsion week, but this is different. What's the relevance?

    This is going to be very, very tough on the Big G. This stuff is good content. It's well crafted, and good looking, and I'm probably the only one in the next 6 months who would call it spam. Take away the spammy subdomain names and the .info and I bet it could hold the top spots forever without any complaints.

    Does it add user value to the niche? Nope.
    Does it represent information wanting to be organized? Nope.
    Does it improve the SERPs? Nope.
    Will it get clicked? Yes.
    Will it retain visitors? Enough.

    Perhaps most impressive of all is someone's recognition of the value in the niche attacked. I have no idea which way it'll be monetized but it could go just about any direction successfully. Until G tracks that steering, it could and probably will dominate broadly. Give the past X years of G experience, a little technology will prevent G from detecting that steering anyway.

    Bottom line is that G will have to see this and hand edit if for no other reason than survival. And like dandelions, you can pluck them from the lawn one by one but is that really a good use of your time? Whoever did this can easily do hundreds more. G can use all the FUD it can muster these days.

    Talking head spammer SEOs start taking credit for highly advanced SEO network in 5...4...3...2....1....

    Anyone looked at pharm serps

    Anyone looked at pharm serps lately? Poor bastards giving subs to those people :)

    ...

    Quote:
    If they don't care then why are they zapping sites Splogfighter reports?

    if they care then why aren't they zapping the sites that comment spam their own employees blogs?

    They don't need splogfighter and spamhuntress and all the other self appointed guardians of the interweb, the sites are pretty easy to find with an algo.

    there's lots of clever people and lots of FUD but I'm not entirely convinced about the amount of common sense lurking at the GooglePlex these days.

    Common Sense

    OK, I've said it before and I'll say it again in that many very smart people, even with PhD's, are just high functioning autistics so don't expect them to be street smart and do things we see as obvious.

    more common sense ...

    always listen carefully to what the people trying to control something have to say

    really carefully

    because ...

    that which they prohibit is that which they can do nothing about without the hammer of sanctions

    to wit:

    you are reminded not to smoke, chew gum etc. in school

    but, feel free to jump off the roof

    the pronouncements from on high may have more value than you think, just not in the manner you might expect.

    same thing with "rules" of contests

    that's always fun. Look at the fine print... the restrictions. They often reveal the vulnerabilities.

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